tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6654162646301256777.post3873679269985345687..comments2023-12-14T05:31:08.422-05:00Comments on TolkienBritta.com: Guest Post: 'DEATH, DEFEAT AND HIGH BEAUTY'Britta Siemenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08416519823032365698noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6654162646301256777.post-82320624728522720652013-05-13T19:39:00.238-04:002013-05-13T19:39:00.238-04:00I think the idea of an individual viewing the worl...I think the idea of an individual viewing the world, its history and future as belonging to us is necessary for us to hold the perspective of life as the "Long Defeat". We see one of the main reasons the High Elves left Valinor was because Fëanor became possessive of The Silmarils (Chapter 9 Fëanor states "there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest")It also requires the individual to desire to preserve the world with it imperfections. The High Elves develop a similar view of Middle Earth they love the things in it that are theirs and of their own making. And thus they are reluctant to part with it and return to Valinor where they are subject to the rule of the Valor.<br />As Christians we are called to be in the world but not of the world. “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15) “If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” (John 15:19)<br />We are called to look forward to the great victory and the creation of a new earth. Are relationship with the world should be something like the relationship of an engineer with his clients old car. He diligently repairs and improves it as best he can but rejoices when the client replace with a new model in perfect condition and far better made than the original.<br />We should look to live life in the light of future victory not in the shadow of the Long Defeat. Because we are not of the world and its content does not ultimately belong to us. We must try and avoid becoming like Fëanor who forgot the light of the Silmarils was not of his making and only captured by him. The thing we create on this earth are not really ours and will pass in time only to be replaced by something greater. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6654162646301256777.post-74913998273146212662013-05-13T15:28:05.790-04:002013-05-13T15:28:05.790-04:00Hi David. I think Tom Shippey is very strong on th...Hi David. I think Tom Shippey is very strong on this and understands why JRRT was so set on the idea of the Long Defeat. Your example of Sam seeing the star is a good one - and shows Sam at his most elvish, because the Long Defeat is an elvish thought.<br /><br />It's Galadriel who coins the phrase, but all the Eldar are essentially fighting the same battle - Elrond's speech at the Council bears this out. I think the older Tolkien was very elvish in his outlook - a thought prompted by Shippey's writing. All the glory seemed to fade to memory and shadow. <br /><br />I actually think this is a departure from the Christian origin of the Long Defeat (which is maybe what you are hinting at here?). Christian theology has always accepted the inevitability of defeat in this life, but maintained that that is not the end of the story. In this respect Aragorn is perhaps more "Christian" than the elves, because he at least knows that beyond the circles of the world there is more than memory. I like to think JRRT remembered this at the end, when he wrote "Beren" and "Luthien" on his grave. Charliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08102799923678550905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6654162646301256777.post-85251131505347008092013-05-12T23:10:45.049-04:002013-05-12T23:10:45.049-04:00It all depends on the interpretation. I am a Roman...It all depends on the interpretation. I am a Roman Catholic and the "long defeat" is what we all are fighting and indeed what Tolkien himself fought against in his writing and in the academic world at large. CS Lewis was fighting a similar long defeat. In fact, I think being a Christian IS knowing that you are invevitably fighting a long defeat. Great article, really looking forward to the book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6654162646301256777.post-71852750414546242452013-05-12T19:28:11.090-04:002013-05-12T19:28:11.090-04:00I like that point of view. I always felt that deat...I like that point of view. I always felt that death and wisdom (elves, wizards) was not based on pesimism or hope entirely but the feeling that despite all their power they knew that was not their time. They knew men (humans) were to inherit middle-earth, for different reasons, some not even fully explained. But in all their power they knew their place and what needed to be done in order to fulfil that task.<br /><br />Obviously that wasn't the case with the other (darker) side of power, who as always (and like in real life) like to perpetuate their reign no matter what.Ramirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09771605041610578409noreply@blogger.com